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Personally, I don't have a problem with the occaisional character that might be androgynous, but the simple fact is G9 is designed so you can take the sliders from 100% male to 100% female. And that works fine for the body mesh, but then the problem becomes the face has to fit somewhere in the middle to work for both ends. Which is why I prefer G8 still, because there is a clear delineation between masculine and feminine features. I wouldn't begrudge a creator for making an androgynous male character for G8, I say go for it. In fact I might need a few for my project simply because that's what the written description calls for. But there are still plenty of guys who sit somewhere around the Cary Grant or Vernon Wells range, and women who are somewhere around the Deborah Kerr or Diane Lane range. There's a distinct difference between facial structure. Personally I could care less about whether or not they have Barbie and Ken anatomy. It's not my thing so it's also not my concern. I also like boobs. Boobs are important, I have them. I just want faces of every day people, like before everyone in Hollywood started visiting the same plastic surgeon (yes, even the lowly Tide commercial talent).
Here are two characters types I spent forever looking for. I finally found one close enough to the guy that a few minor face morphs will get it there, but the lady's character type is very elusive and I'll need to create my own face morphs. Then there's the hair. I haven't really found the hairstyles I need. I can probably piece some of them together but others will need an entirely new hair model. I also think it's funny how on Daz, a lot of the 80s fashion is labeled as 90s fashion, but there was a difference. Sure, there was some carryover, but tightly rolled cuffs on jeans were an 80s thing. I used to do that in 1985-87. But I also used to hand paint designs on my jean jackets and make them cropped. Or there's a 60s hairstyle I found that is labeled an 80s hairstyle. It looks like something Michael Nesmith from the Monkees, or a 60s Beatnik would wear! I guess there might have been some characters in the 70s still sporting that, especially bad guys in a few movies, but jeesh. 😂 The younguns got their decades all mixed up. So I guess my main issue is miscategorization, a flood of mediocre to samey characters I have to wade through to find the good ones, and a lackluster search engine that doesn't narrow things nearly enough to home in on the stuff I want to find, or totally misses the boat and cancels out everything that should appear when I check the box. There's still some good stuff there, but it's very hard to find and I'm wasting decades trying to curate a list of things I need.
Here is the thing, Art is in the eye of the beholder and that is what these people ruining the world are trying to take away from us. Our Creativity. As you said @Josie, you don't mind adrongenous bodies, and I respect that.
I really don't care either if people are in that stuff, I just ignore it/Block it/Filter it out. Just like how i filter out any AI generated art.
We all have individuality, but the issue is, soon as we start removing that, we all become the same thing. And that takes away our Humanity. that is where I draw the line, and I am not alone in that boat.
People want to support Transgenderism? Be my guest.
People want to support weird fetishes? Be my guest.
Where it stops is when you try to force that shit onto me, and if you can't take the consequences of your actions, then you shouldn't dish it out in the first place...
And that is the truth.
Anyway, nuf of that.
I know there are problems with the single mesh for both genders. Completely legitimate. Also there are some pros. Like I think being able to easily fit male clothes on females can be a nice perk to having one mesh. I do hate that the clothes are not categorized by gender though. I hate looking for male clothes for genesis 9 because like 90% of the clothes are for females so I have to sift through it just to get my fucking males some damn clothes. I'm like hmm maybe I want a suit jacket for this guy and I'm sifting through all these damn dresses! Like I think daz is trying to get me to turn gay! (sarcasm)
I personally don't notice the problem with the skeleton for Genesis 9. So could you provide an example maybe with a picture or not with what you think the skeleton can or can't do that it should not or should do?
I can't get geografts to work hardly ever even on Genesis 8 so I always avoid them except for genitalia grafts like dictator and golden palace.
I've never noticed an issue with the skeleton in G9, because you can adjust it using the sliders if you really want to tweak it. The bones have the ability to change length or move around.
Clothing is not just an issue in G9, it's also really hard to find clothes for G8 males that stand out from the rest. Not every guy wears casual dress or jeans and a T-shirt. Not every guy wears form fitting biker gear. I had a heck of a time trying to find the right techwear and ended up having to curate stuff from other websites not even related to Daz, which I'll have to import and convert to Daz. Because some of the futuristic stuff is way too sleek, too goofy, or misses the look I'm going for.
Where are the parachute pants or MC Hammer outfits? Where's the Bag Lady Chic? Where's the clean lines of corporate future wear? Where are all the leisure suits with tight waists and exaggerated shoulder pads? The pencil ties? Most of the guy's are stuck wearing street clothes or office fashion. And the only real diversity is in the fantasy category, or military.
There's also a distinct lack of fur coats and animal print clothing in the styles I want to find. 3d fur coats in no way support the slaughter of animals, but they do feature in some very memorable sci fi movies known for extravagant wardrobes. It's like an entire missed opportunity for some really cool outfits. The only things that get close are game rips that have some interesting styles, but I don't want to just slap that on any old character. I want to create more unique ensembles that don't look like they are just copycats of stuff from video games.
@Skeleton - There were at the start with Gen 9 having Rigging problems with it being a Unimesh.
Maybe it's not anymore, who knows, but there were YT videos about it at the beginning. I don't know if they even exist anymore.
And you are not wrong that there is like a VERY slim pickings for Male Clothing and ONLY a SHIT load of female clothing.
I do agree that there is no balance to assets for male characters to female characters in DAZ.
Remember who probably looks at a LOT of DAZ Renders? In a way, PERVERTS, who are into Women alot, the male Audiences mainly, not saying there isn't Females also not looking cause there are. I mean we have @Josie who is one and does her own artwork and into boobs herself, but vast majority is Gooner Men.
Probably why so much Female Oriented models and assets are being made more than male...
I mean having boobs usually means you like your own boobs so... But to address the women's vs men's clothing issue, it's just an exaggeration of how the clothing situation is IRL. The clothing section for women is usually a lot bigger than the men's section in any retail store. And there are some stores that only cater to women. But the clothing selection for guys in Daz needs to step up it's game quite a bit to even match the IRL ratios. And in many cases, like much of the cool sci fi stuff, cyber suits and some armors, there is only a female version and no male counterpart. But in the cases where there is one for men and one for women, sometimes the female outfit or the male outfit in the matching set can look derpy. There's a way to convert some of the female armors to male, but I haven't tried that out yet with the few I do have to test it on. I'll probably have to export them after the conversion to fix problem areas.
I think another reason why there are so many female outfits is because there are a ton of dresses and gowns. The file size for dresses and gowns is pretty small in mesh terms, and it can only get larger because of textures. But with fantastic textures a creator can really get a good ROI from it because the file size can be small, and they can still charge quite a bit depending on how many material options it has. There are so many variations on the same dress too where small details or cutouts might be different, but it's still the same basic shape overall. So you can end up seeing 20 dresses with the same basic look and maybe only slight variations on the same theme.
So if it were up to you I would not have Oliver to make an image like this. Yeah it's not high art I spent an hour or so on it. So kill me. It's also in my style which people might not like. I'm not saying you're supposed to like it.
I forgot to mention that it was Gail's 18th birthday yesterday. Gail being the lady in the picture. So it's legal.
No, you can have whatever you want, but why should it also be at the expense of what other people want? That's the point. Having one or the other doesn't need to exclude the demand for one or the other. How is that so hard to understand? All I want is for Daz to stop trying to put the stuff I don't want in front of me on their storefront every time, when I have to go through at least 5 pages of it to finally get something close to my needs. It's the same for characters. If I specifically want characters, and even when I check the box for it, then people, they give me bundles for 2-3 pages instead of characters only. It's a problem with what Daz puts in front of the user as an annoying obstacle, not a problem with what you want to use in your renders.
I mean we have the technology to make search engines really good. So it's more a question of their algorithm and what they prefer to serve to the user as opposed to what the user wants to find, and it's further frustrated by their awful operands and check boxes that often exclude the exact things you want to find from the search results.
What? Where? How? When? Did I ever say that I should get Oliver at the expense of the things you want? You like putting words into my mouth a lot Josie.
Also Josie it seems like most of your specific gripes are not even specific to genesis 9. I'm not saying your complaints aren't valid except that they don't seem exactly related to this threads premise.
Hey Josie when you're searching for stuff what is your method?
For instance when I search for stuff I search google, and ZGFX and maybe one other pirate site. I almost always find what I'm looking for with some exceptions of course. I realize thought that you seem to have an extremely specific idea of what you're trying to depict and are rigidly opposed to bending your rules since you're limited by what people create as you stated earlier.
@Skeleton
I agree Genesis 8 had ugly characters, but it is not anywhere near proportionally the same as Genesis 9. The reasoning is also different, in my opinion. Characters that were "ugly" in previous Genesis versions (G1/2/3/8) were unattractive for what I would consider to be honest reasons (artists of limited means creating characters, different beauty standards).
Many Genesis 9 characters are intentionally unattractive, i.e. unattractive by design. This uglification is by no means limited to Daz Studio, but rather is something going on at large in various industries (movies and television, gaming, comics books, etc...)
My question wasn't 'is this happening?' (it is), but rather why is this so? What is the purpose of this uglification (no one asked for it), and why?
I think the overwhelming majority of Daz users enjoy making sexy renders of sexy women (just look at any store page for evidence, the market doesn't lie), so it seems odd to me we'd see such a huge influx of ugly characters that no one is going to buy.
I'd love to see Daz's sales numbers, by the way. There's no way they're making any real money off any of the characters or others like them that I listed earlier.
@Cobra - I'll answer that: Probably Blackrock/Vanguard money is keeping them afloat at this point.
I mean the amount of ESG/DEI that people can see in Gen 9 is astounding. More than likely, their shareholders told DAZ to start hiring on people who have NO idea what they are doing, and just being told to ruin everything on purpose, and yes it's not SOLELY at DAZ. The entire ENTERTAINMENT INDUSTRY is under a lot of scrutiny right now. Many Industries are. We need to start building them ourselves on our own, without corpo influence.
And that time is fast approaching, so people better start waking up.
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