Rendo Buys Poser

Rendo Buys Poser

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    • eelgoo

      said

      Well, despite having been a Poser user for many years, I have not loaded it since IRay launched in DS.
      For me, it was a quantum leap in realism & I never looked back.
      TBH at this stage I can’t really see Bondware’s logic in buying Poser.
      I can’t see they will have the resource to do much with it.
      For their sake I hope it was cheap, because I wouldn’t want to lose ‘Rosity as a store. :0/

    • I think maybe they (Renderosity) just did it to finaly getting a “link” out of the chain and having more control on what they are making.

      If we look at it, Renderosity is arguably the second biggest store after Daz own store. But unlike Daz, it wasn’t owning any “right” to any program it was making asset for. They always to play by the rule of the program made by Daz or Smith Micro.
      Also, it was quite obvious that Renderosity was the biggest main store of Poser’s product.

      So i think for a question of marketing and to give them more control on their future asset creativity, they just took out Smith Micro out of the equation. Who know…maybe Renderosity had to pay some sort of royalties to Smith Micro for having the right of making and selling product for their program. I don’t know how all this work.

      But one thing for sure, with Renderosity now owning all the right on the Poser Program, they’ll have less their hand tied on the creativity and the making of assets for this program. But who knows what will be their plan. Just like Daishi suggested, do they intend to revamp Poser’s program and it’s technology to be a serious competitor to Daz Studio ?
      Or just stay like this because they don’t have the ressource to do anything more with it like Eelgoo suggested.

      Guess we’ll just have to wait and see.

    • ulysses

      said

      The only logical reason is to create a DAZ 2.0. Own the software and own the store that sells the content. But it’s going to be hard to beat the price of DAZ Studio ;o)

      What can they possibly offer that DAZ doesn’t already?

    • eelgoo

      said

      Well, if Smith Micro, presumably a software development company fail to make Poser competetive, Bondware, which I take to be primarily artists & hobbyist product vendors, is really going to struggle.
      Where SM really dropped the ball was when they refused to adopt the Genesis line from Daz as native within Poser & forced Daz’s hand into developing DS.
      It took Daz a good while to even get it competetive with Poser, but they got there & then soon overtook the apparently under resourced Poser.
      Much as I like to see healthy competetition, I fear we are past the point of no return for Poser. :0/

    • AnjaBear

      said

      You all realize that Poser still has the same Kai Krause interface that was released with Poser 3? And it hasn’t been changed or tampered with since then? And we’re talking the mid 1990s. The only changes to the interface was them trying to have the browsing of the content using the Flash engine (which is no longer valid anymore) and the only big change was the addition of Superfly (which I haven’t been able to figure out).

      The content provided when you actually BOUGHT the Poser software was made by vendors who are mostly long dead, or since quit. Many of the things in the content pack with it were from RuntimeDNA in their start up days. Most of it is sub-par quality.

      Additionally the figures that came with Poser only had one generation of figures that looked halfway decent and were not truly miscreants. Those were the G2’s. Everything else had repair software created by Blackhearted to remove the “gross” effect from the figure’s looks and bad bending.

      Poser was good with Daz’s Generation 3 (V3/M3/D3/F3/H3/A3/SP3)
      and with Daz’s Generation 4 (V4/M4/F4/H4/A4/SP4)

      Once Genesis was introduced, then you needed special software as Daz changed the structure of storing the files and they just were no longer Poser compatible. This was not because they hated Poser, it was because they were advancing technology and developing with the times. Poser in the hands of Smith-Micro, which was only interested in their Mac-related Zip software and Smartphone systems tech, just bought it as a cash cow and not really interested in doing a think with it. For a while that worked, but then after years no one wants to pay hundreds for software which has an interface out of the stone age-which isn’t intuitive, and photo-real isn’t possible without expensive plugins.

      The split of Poser or shall we say Split of Daz to create a BETTER posing and rendering system was just necessary – wasn’t anything against Poser, it just needed to be done. Smith-Micro refused to work with Daz to keep the formats compatible and shunned Genesis and all subsequent versions. They wanted to stick with old figures created back in 2006, and never progress further than that – after all there were tons of products available for V4 and M4, who needs anything else.

      The site HiveWire is made up of disgruntled Daz folks, who used to be part of the Daz creation team (Chris Creek) and others like Lisa Buckalew (Platinum Club, plants creator) and Ken Gilliland (Platinum Club, bird creator) and a small amount of people who sell stuff everywhere else too. The only good thing they did was created the Hivewire Horse, and Hivewire House Cat and Kitten and the HiveWire Dog and Puppy. There Daz hasn’t updated the Daz Cat since Anton Kisiel made it back in 2001.

      So I see this as the final Divorce of Poser from Daz…

      Poser now must either move out of Daz Studio’s shadow and completely overhaul itself, created a content and assets house, update the tech and build a modern interface, make seamless compatibility with external tools like Blender or Render Engines and Gaming Engines, or simply hang it up, and stay a legacy product – but charging mainstream pricing for an antique? Not sure.

      I consider this like how the Japanese in Hiroshima and Nagasaki felt after the 2 nuclear bombs destroyed their cities – and they need to rebuild, completely from scratch. Smith-Micro truly nuked the product’s future in the years it owned Poser, and now they need to rebuild after ground-zero.

      Say what you will, and I started with Poser 3, and was a huge fan of it, this will require huge energy and enthusiasm and know-how to resurrect.

      AnjaBear

    • eelgoo

      said

      Very valid input there, Anja.
      ( I was shortly after you with Poser 4. )
      Which only re-enforces my puzzlement as to why Bondware bothered to buy Poser? :0/

    • With poser in good hands I really hope that’ll stop DAZ from being a monopoly on 3D Content.

      If you look at the current patterns, DAZ’s prices got way more expensive after Poser was pretty much abandoned by SmithMicro.

      DAZ acquiring RuntimeDNA in 2016 seemed more like a way of removing competition from the Poser crowd since they wanted to make their store look like Renderosity’s, yet it pretty much blew up in their face when they tried to partner up with hivewire to sell the hivewire animals (after many DAZ users were complaining about lack of new DAZ animals) as well since it only lasted for like less than a month and it was right before the DAZ Dog 8 was released, the hivewire content suddenly vanished with no response from DAZ whatsoever.

      It was discovered that DAZ was secretly creating the DAZ Dog 8 without hivewire even knowing, and decided to pull out of the partnership and decided to go partner up with Renderosity instead. It’s showing that Renderosity is much more consumer friendly than DAZ and more former DAZ vendors have left and moved into Renderosity’s marketplace in the last year or 2.

      DAZ needs Poser to compete since DAZ is becoming more of a bad place to buy and even sell at these days.

    • eelgoo

      said

      I think the days of Poser / DS effective competetion are long over.
      That said, I really do value ‘Rosity as an alternative source of Daz Studio compatible assets, so would not like it to disappear, which is why I expressed my concern that they had bought Poser.

    • barc

      said

      Poser is still a better posing solution than DAZ imo. But that’s the only thing Poser has going for it.

      I hope Rendo doesn’t start focusing only on Poser content at the expense of their DAZ content. That would be a real loss.

      • It’s already confirmed by the Rendo staff that they will continue to sell DAZ products.

    • eelgoo

      said

      A sensible choice, as I suspect that probably generates most of their income. 🙂

    • Daishi

      said

      I think they can pull it out.

      The fact is that Poser is in many ways, even after years of neglect, still has better base functionality than Daz Studio.

      The way they can win this IMHO is work to build in native Genesis support (while working on their own models, and probably ways to transfer genesis content to those models), incorporate a modern rendering engine, and overhaul the UI.

    • eelgoo

      said

      I’m sorry, but I can’t see that.
      I appreciate that each program has its strengths & weaknesses, but I think they have a mountain to climb to even reach parity with Daz Studio, which is free software.

      :0/

      • Daishi

        said

        I disagree.

        It needs an overhaul to modernize it, but it still has a number of features that daz still lacks.

        Daz’s great advantages are two fold. First, its free. Something Rendo could easily correct by… well… making Poser Basic free as well. Second is the polish. That can also be dealt with by a UI overhaul.

    • Feymarcher

      said

      Honestly, I’d say it’s a losing battle at this point. If they can’t -or Daz doesn’t want to- find a way to incorporate Genesis 3/8 content, then it’ll truly be game over for Poser. Especially since DS now has nearly everything Poser had that originally gave it an advantage over DS.

    • Plebby

      said

      I bought Poser Pro 2014 mainly for the Dynamic capabilities which Daz was lacking at the time. To be honest, I’ve used it once, finding Daz’s interface easier to work with. I find Daz is way more user friendly but having said that, I hope Poser sticks around for a good bit longer yet. Nothing wrong with a bit of healthy competition and it will keep the Daz developers on their toes.

    • inc3d

      said

      Daz Studio isn’t really ‘free’, that’s just their sales model, the people that buy content are paying for it. I bought a copy of Poser Pro 11 when I was feeling pissed off with Daz over 4.10.0.123 messing up the shaders, never figured out how to use it. They could do with some training that takes you through loading a character and stuff and then rendering it. All the training I saw takes you through all the ‘rooms’ but then never brings it all together. Daz developed Dog 8 on the quiet while they were selling the Hivewire animals? Why does that not surprise me.
      inc3d.

    • Tomsk

      said

      @anjabear

      The points you make are spot on. Let’s just hope that they can learn from past mistakes!

    • I think SM simply didn’t want Poser anymore because sales were low compared to the costs for staff and support. Rendo only made the acquisition because it was probably very cheap and they feel they can milk it for a bit longer with the benefit of their marketing. It was a desperation purchase because SM was probably planning to sunset Poser in the near future as they obviously never had any serious intention of keeping it relevant in the modern 3D software/content landscape. It was already outdated 10 years ago and that’s a huge gap in the graphics industry.

      I don’t think Rendo can afford to make any serious changes to Poser. The time and costs involved in just overhauling the UI would be very significant, let alone any deep dives into underlying code. Changing a UI is more complex than simply re-skinning; major changes can have serious impacts on how content is accessed, manipulated, and the speed and responsiveness of the software. It will be at least a year, if not longer, before there will be any radical changes that would bring it up to par with Daz Studio. The phenomenal lack of enthusiasm (and content) for La Femme is only going to serve diminish the willingness to sink more major resources into making dramatic changes. Any updates that broke existing functionality would be met with terrible backlash. Updating and testing take a solid team with deep knowledge of the code, a lot of testing, and then a smooth roll out. For a product with a significant price tag you can’t play fast and loose with updates.

      I foresee a slow but steady drop in price for both standard and Pro versions (so as not to piss off recent customers) that go hand in hand with VERY minor cosmetic updates. They’ll make attempts to integrate support for third-party render engines and 3D modeling programs. Eventually, within about a year, I think they will make the basic version free and a subscription model to support content sales. They will struggle to keep it relevant while increasingly treating it as a second-tier product that brings in dribbles of income with ever-dwindling content sales.

      Poser fans seem to be rejoicing that Rendo bought Poser but I immediately questioned the motives. A company that relies on content sales is buying a platform that they sell content for, but they also sell content for the competition. They aren’t going to risk losing their income from Daz users. They also can’t force people to make Poser-specific content or suddenly convince everyone to buy an expensive package that is outdated, slow, and is sorely lacking in features. I don’t see this is a resurgence for Poser, just life support while it’s in a coma. I give it a couple years at best under Rendo’s ownership.

    • Feymarcher

      said

      @littlepleasures I agree.

      I’d imagine Poser also took a huge blow after Rooster Teeth moved production of RWBY from Poser to Maya (rather than using Maya assets within Poser) after Monty Oum’s passing. S-M couldn’t use that as a marketing draw anymore for the program, relatively speaking.

      Add to this, someone on the Daz forums stated that one of the powers that be at Rendo said they’re “very new” to software development and that it’ll be a while before they do anything major, software-wise, to Poser.

      I don’t know about anyone else here, but that doesn’t inspire a whole lot of confidence.

      Frankly, I think the generational gap is widening in regards to Poser: most people in my generation and onward are more inclined to use programs like Blender or Daz, simply because they are free, and even with paid-add ons, you can still find a wealth of free content to use with both. To someone like myself, Poser is archaic and mostly associated with really badly made fetish artwork on DeviantArt. Plus, a lot of the older content creators are either dead or have moved on to Daz. Rendo is going to have a lot of work to do in order to convince Millennials and Gen Z’ers that Poser Pro 11 is worth the price they’re asking for, especially since it’s woefully outdated and clunky by today’s standards.

    • The only reason I even have Poser 11 installed, is because of all the stuff here and elsewhere that is “Poser ONLY”, so I can try to fix the issues with importing them into Daz. Every time I’ve tried to use one of those spiffy looking “poser only” packages in Daz, it SOOO blows up on me, and looks like crap.

    • ulysses

      said

      Rendo will try and duplicate the DAZ business model. Make money on the content. The problem is, afaik, Rendo doesn’t have a team of developers to overhaul and support a modeling software. The old team at SM obviously didn’t have the chops to keep up with the competition so, unless SM ownership was holding them back, having new owners whose expertise is selling someone else’s content.

      We’ll see. I hope they do succeed. DAZ needs competition for both the app and a heavy hitting content store.

      • Daishi

        said

        I think it’ll be a year before you really see much on this.

        They’re going to have to hire a team and get them used to working on Poser.

        Though I do see there being a lot of changes in the works. You don’t make an investment like this simply to let it die. I think they basically want to duplicate Daz’s model… and if they make it work with Daz content then I’m thinking they’re going to do well.

        Probably will involve some major changes but they know better than most if they let daz have its way, they’re going to slowly isolate options and content until only the Daz store remains in an absolute unchecked monopoly.

    • eelgoo

      said

      Wandering slightly off-topic here.
      Personally I much prefer Rosity’s marketing strategy to Daz’s.

      At Daz, I dislike the following:
      No easy way to contact the vendor & no customer reviews.
      No way of knowing when a sales promotion is ending.
      What kind of art community is frightened of nudity but fine with gore?
      Daz’s!
      Now I am not advocating pornography, but it is really handy, if you can properly see a skin texture prior to purchase.
      ‘ Buy this & get a discount on that! ‘
      Why can’t they use coupons, like ‘Rosity, and then you can buy what you really want?

      :0/

    • CDK

      said

      I am happy that Rendo got Poser and I actually see a future for it. And working in both applications, I will say that I prefer Poser because of many things – clean, crisp, noise-free renders, short render time, lights that don’t take a whole lot of tweaking are just a few.

      And all the time I have been buying stuff there (and I have spent a lot of money there – and happily so), I have never thought that they were greedy or overpricing things. I wish I could say the same about Daz but I can’t.

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