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Genesis 9 face has the best skin, eyes, proportion. Especially the eyes are really good. And the face is what conveys emotions to your viewer. The body, in the majority of cases, is covered.
Daz3d has a nice renderer. Iray. Even if you don't like Iray you have Octane. One of the Best.
The problem is that few PAs know how to make proper models and proper shaders.
And even fewer users know how to use light to create a picture. I can understand this, because Daz3d is a program for the amateur, not the professional. But the main reason for a bad render its not the program, its the user who don't know how to use light and perspective. You gonna have the same bad pictures even if you use Blender or 3dsMax or Maya or Cinema4D. OK, these programs has better animation, sculpt, modelling, everything. But Daz its not a program for these jobs.
Personally, I want just one feature from the Daz. USD compatibility.Flatly disagree on most counts.
G9: Horrible and unacceptable bend morphs and geometry at joints. (Some of us do not "cover up" such deficiencies with clothing - a majority of the time.) Only difference in skin is (unnecessary) 8k textures. With good 4k maps the exact same effect can be achieved with G8.1, and even G8, under any closeup scenario. I see no appreciable difference in "eyes", nor do I, personally, find "shapes" or "proportions" to be of any improvement. To the contrary, I find the default G9 body proportions and shape to be lumpy, abruptly square, and unattractive, with female breast geometry to be drastically underdeveloped and unnatural, and nearly impossible to correct without additional morph packages. Most PAs effectively tune out these problems with their offerings. Leg and feet shaping can be dialed differently and specifically to be more desirable (with default feet shape being the only potential improvement), but that shouldn't be the first thing required out of the box of an "upgrade", IMHO.
Summary: G9 = Geometric downgrade with unnecessary bloat.And no DAZ render engine is to blame for that but...
DAZ also happens to have an insufficient, un-updated* Iray render engine, it's a known issue. The DAZ version of Iray can be manipulated into producing somewhat acceptable results, but comparing it to Arnold, or even Cycles, is farcical. And that has absolutely nothing to do with the end user or their abilities or understandings, nor is it the fault of PAs or the quality of their products to scapegoat (you can take any PA asset into Blender to test and prove that fact if in doubt); it truly is a limitation of the platform's utilization of Iray - that's not an opinion, it's objective, demonstrable truth; the best and most capable DAZ artists cop to it, frequently, and turn to real engines for better results without the "DAZ effect" if and when more realism is required. DAZ Iray is badly in need of an update or upgrade (with the latter stoking fears of a newly required shader system if it ever happened, so some balk).
Octane requires a completely different set of shader conversions to work with DS native scenes and materials, and octane renders do not mirror Iray render results for that reason. It is not a viable or practical option for the native structure of the platform because of that heavy conversion factor, with inconsistent and unfaithful results (shared opinion). Octane works great when starting with Octane, but not when converting Iray materials (the typically desired workflow for DAZ users).G9 (and DAZ Iray) get thumbs downs on this side.
*EDIT: The latest public beta (4.22.1.110 as of this note) has Iray ver 2023.1.4. While "updated" feverishly over the past couple of years in fits and spurts, we're still not using recent Iray versions in DAZ Iray renders. (Also have not seen much any difference in comparative test results between current beta and DS versions as far back as 4.15.X.X. And no render time improvement at that, either. So whatever updates are taking place from version to version, they are having little to no effect on how Iray is utilized in DS.)
My view exactly Spats. As the head is the only good part of G9, the model has limited usefulness.
As Davros perhaps....?
It's not the Arnold, Vray, Cycles, Redshift, Corona, Iray or anything else, that make or brake your picture. The Iray integration in DAZ is not good as in 3DSmax, but there it is not free.
I don't know the Substance programs so good to know about the Iray there.
@frank22 without shadows you don't scare me 😎😃P.S. English it's not my native language.
Is there a way to copy a genesis 9 figure to use with genesis 8? I like the Vera model that was posted here a few days ago but I still do not like genesis 9. I would love to be able to use that model on genesis 8 and with the expressions as well if possible.
Thanks.
@Mark Not yet, no easy one Click solution.--->
I Work in UE5, Daz is my fun hobbyside, the main difference as far as a pipeline goes G9 is much easier to port to Unreal. less issues to fix like the monster face on import fpr 8 and 8.1
Animations with g9 and creating custom rigs etc is much easier with G9, results are closer to what they should be.
Metahumans are cool to worl with but if you think there is a shortage of clothing for G9 try finding off the shelf clothing for metahumans.
Now if only daz could get their act together with the shaders on the daz to unreal bridge export it would be a great step forward. As it is depending on the character / clothig etc etc. It can take a good few hours to create custom materials that come close to the original results in Daz.
If DS5 "omniverse" goes cloud/subscription that will be the end of it for me. I've basically lost interest in it anyway.
That would be the death of Daz Studio. Users will be forced to create a NVidia account, and login every time they have to render something. All your data will be tracked and uploaded to NVidia's cloud-based service.
In view of Daz suppressing G8 content, I sincerely hope other sites will capitalise on the opportunity to promote G8.
It should be a decent income stream for them.
🙂
Thanks for that table Adam @D0gg0d
"Looks better in close ups" is debatable as some PAs insist on using painted eyebrows for G9. As G9 is focused on rendering closeup head/shoulder shots, it seems stupid to have eyebrows painted onto the textures.At the scale and distance I usually render, I doubt 9 will make much of a difference. Morphs "seem" to take better on 8 since I'm not fighting against androgony. I've not seen any skin that impressed me as being drastically better than 8. Not fond of needing to increase the subdivisions to see micro definitions.
I've seen what 8 is capable of producing and 9 hasn't blown me away. I like the mapping on 8 better since I'm use to it."I've not seen any skin that impressed me as being drastically better than 8."
I haven't seen a single G9 one better than previous Genesis, or going back to V4 for that matter.Don't be silly. V4 had baked in shadows and details that do not work in a render engine like Iray. Many textures were less than 4K in size, and they were badly compressed on top of that small size.
Texture compression is a great evil in this field, and too many PAs compress the crap out of their textures still. But they have got a little better, some of them them at least. When you see textures that are just a couple hundred KB in size, that's not a good sign. When it comes to the important detail maps, you may as well just use a random noise map at that point.When it comes to Genesis 9, a number of PAs have slowly started to ship less compressed textures. They also started using different sources for them, likely through Daz's deal with XYZ Texturing, though that trend started with 8.1. I know it is easy to crap on G9, it is bad, but this is one thing that is not that bad. The detail normal map for G9 is the best normal map I have seen. No other even comes close.
However material settings play a massive role, and this is a problem. The PBR Skin shader that Daz came up with isn't anything special, and many characters have a skin setting that casts a black shadow around the edges of the skin. Why PAs keep doing that, I don't know, but that certainly is not how skin works. It gives G9 characters an outline that makes them stand out a mile from anything else as well as being obvious CGI creations. For all the hype around the new eye, the eye tear prop looks like this milky material instead of, well, a tear, and it is perfectly smooth and unnatural looking. As for the eye textures, you can use the G9 eye textures on 8.1, BTW, with no conversion needed. If you do that, the "advancement" of 9 in the eyes is largely nullified.
Because the advancement was mostly from the texture.Iray is what it is. Most of the other render engines are doing some form of cheat to be faster or look the way they do. But regardless, Iray is just a plug in for Daz. They can use any number of other render engines. Daz still includes a 3DL plugin, and don't forget Filament.
So they can add another render engine, and still keep Iray for compatibility.The same goes for Genesis. Daz can make a new figure that is not Genesis, but still include Genesis just like they include Victoria 4 still to this day.
It wouldn't even make sense to exclude past content, that absolutely would sink the company. Granted the company is sinking, but killing off Iray and or Genesis would capsize the boat mush faster. They need to do something, but not that.All that said, I think Daz 5 is largely vaporware. They have like 1 guy doing the actual programming, and he's not getting younger. DS5 clearly broke a couple years ago, and they have spent all that time trying to make it work. That is a massive red flag. The software will be outdated the day it ships if it ever does because of all these delays. But I think it is just as likely Daz will go out of business before DS5 ships. They might try to get it out the door unfinished at the last minute as a desperation play.
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