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This is a grumble, not a full rant, and I might be being unreasonable - but I really do think some content creators are upcharging for pretty lazy AI assets that are mega easily generated? I've given good money to both Dreamlight and Powerage and they do some amazing stuff, but it feels like both are peddling fast-generated AI assets that anyone can craft easily and pretty cheaply on Meshy or with a Fal model or even locally with an open-weights one.
Examples: https://www.renderhub.com/dreamlight/aire-elements-cars-vol-1-daz-studio
https://www.renderhub.com/dreamlight/aire-elements-cinematic-creatures-vol-1-daz-studioLike $7-$12 for 4 generated un-textured static creatures or cars is something, idk. Powerage's masks and creatures packs do at least have many models included.
I just generated this dino and this jeep with Meshy.ai in 3 mins each (and textured) and pictures with free credits on their latest model. I do have a sub on Meshy, but yeah, even before many models can be generated for free or cheap. (lmk if anyone wants them as an obj, don't have an immediate use just wanted to run the experiment!)
Just wanted to get that off my chest! 3D artists deserve their props, and it sucks how Ai is taking away craftsmanship (and I know that's ironic, as a non-sculptor/2d only artist taking advantage of 3d AI and is v active on a pirate site) but there's a point where it seems a smidge scammy to me.
I dunno... I'm not paying(*cough*) for the mesh production method. I am (*cough*)paying(*cough*cough*) for the idea, the design, and colors, and the usefulness of the finished product.
If it's low-grade AI slop or less useful than a similar fully-rigged item, then that will become obvious quickly and the vendor will quickly suffer.
This isn't directed at you, but rather for general consideration.
Isn't it the result that matters?
Do you want the item?
Can you use the item?
Is it versatile?Should anyone really care how it was made (short of moral issues like sweatshops) if it suits your needs?
Do you buy poorly made conventionally modeled items?
If the results are beneath your own standards, then don't buy it or use it.
If enough consumers feel the same, and sales diminish, then the vendor will likely reconsider their methods.
Should anyone care how much another person charges in a free market for an item you feel doesn't meet your standards? Why must your standards be the determining factor for other people's purchases?
From Woody Allen, “There's an old joke - um... two elderly women are at a Catskill mountain resort, and one of 'em says, "Boy, the food at this place is really terrible." The other one says, "Yeah, I know; and such small portions." Well, that's essentially how I feel about life - full of loneliness, and misery, and suffering, and unhappiness, and it's all over much too quickly.”
Caveat emptor.
Everything from there is overpriced because idiots still buy from it. Some bootlickers like to defend scams like this, is what it is.
haha *cough cough* indeed! That's a good point on the market will sort itself out @GrouchyOldFart, and 3Demon I agree with your point in the abstract as well.
But when focusing down on exactly what bothers me about the practice is that especially with the insane speed of AI generation capability advancement, there are a very solid amount of people who see these fun good looking assets and aren't at all aware they're not worth $7-$12, and that these vendors are taking advantage of a moment in time where general populace awareness of capability hasn't caught up to the tech yet? (and for many it never will)
If they were saying in their descriptions "I used the 3D open weight model Trellis to whip this up in 30 mins" that'd be different, but while there's an AI tag that could mean 'used AI to do a final pass' and isn't very clear on what level of it was used.
So while it's not illegal I still see it as shady and as yeah scammy?
But I'm also not a Caveat Emptor believer either, so we may just disagree philosophically! Not that this is what you're saying, I'm spinning off into big-picturism, but am leery of the concept of 'survival & thrive-l of the most shameless' that's sorta a clarion cry of post-capitalism and the billionaires as space gods race.
But on the flip it is just $7, so whatever. But I sideeye!
I'm a fan (sorta) of AI generated items as long as they're of a quality I expect AND the price is lower to reflect the time savings in it's creation. I'm not entirely thrilled with some stuff from Powerage, and Dreamlight can suck wind. Dreamlight's stuff was always crap.
I've been playing with Meshy as I have lots of ideas for items. Even with taking a shortcut in generating the mesh, there's still a lot of rigging involved with many items. Rendo lets you know if an item used AI in it's creation. RenderHub is questionable. I wouldn't trust them as far as I can throw them uphill, into the wind, at night and with a broken arm. Daz is lying through it's effing teeth.
The one BIG benefit of AI is that it will make item creation a LOT for accessible to people as it improves. We can then rely less on the big vendors.Agreeed there are several items in Daz that are not tagged as AI assisted that I'm pretty sure are largely AI whipped up.
Yes! AI is such a weird mix of 'it's literally stealing art style without compensation' and "empowers people without expensive or time-consuming training to be very creative and create, which is fulfilling", and lets ppl create their own cool stuff.
It's such a weird ass time for humanity.
Something just occurred to me. AI generated pictures and movies are possible because the databases are trained on millions (billions?) of pictures and videos stolen/scraped/scooped up off the net. Similarly, stolen text is used to create all the written crap we get.
What are they using to train 3D meshes from? There can't be much free stuff they can steal."they're not worth $7-$12"
To whom? You can't agree with me in the abstract and not be able to answer that question.
If Stonemason whips out an environment with his degree of quality in 30 seconds, does that diminish the usefullness of the product?
Yet if Stonemason releases an ultra-realistic, high definition, multi-resolution triangle that he spent 3 years designing, well...I'm not interested. But if you are...be my guest.
The point is that you aren't paying for the time it takes to construct a product. Or the complexity of the product. You're only paying for its perceived value...to you. It's precisely why you are here downloading items for a cost you ARE willing to pay. There are items I don't bother downloading for 'free', because they don't meet my standard: Usefulness.
Value, fulfillment, complexity, effort, benefit, trust...these are all subjective considerations.
You don't believe in "Caveat Emptor"? Then why are you employing the concept? Only you are responsible for your commerce. And you're clearly concerned for it. Do you want some external group controlling what you are allowed to buy with your own earnings?
the only reason they "dont allow" witch hunts is because its so easy to spot AI now, 3-4 years later, that they would have to remove dozens of items from the oficial store, where they have been publishing products with AI for so long now, some of them "only" to enhance promos, and the "we dont allow AI" is not true, they dont want to lose bucks from dummies buying slop neither the anti ai squad. not a single blatant case has been removed and tickets are ignored. shills infiltrated on the forums as costumers and on discords like slackers lie blatantly trying to ridiculice any AI claim, always protecting the company with no logical arguments.
the most ridiculously AI publishers are isourcetextures (fantasy army slop), polish (dozens of props), xivon (non sensical stuff, and blatant ai generated images on billboards, menus...), princess pa (go seek her 6 finger promos or different ears on same promo characters), all dreamlight shit which is also stolen from other programs websites, Giki (with all the same shit but more blatant Polish does), magix101 (most recent set is his own work vomited on an AI), kubramatic (those shields, halloween props and the new plants wtf?) 3dlab (entire sets made with AI, specially Dark Dungeon and all of the prop packs)... i got tired of thinking, there was a thread about the current state of daz from months ago with lists and more cases but well chatgpt can browse the entire forums (including this one) at the speed of light to make you a summary of all of the named cases with examples.
here are the most wtf products for me:
To me, really! If they are to you, that's of course fine. My core issue remains the lack of transparency so buyers can decide themselves via knowing how they're created if it's worth $7-12.
agree to disagree and all that! I'm far too lazy tonight after my work day to debate consumer protection, just shaking my fist at the clouds abt AI slop.
! Now that you've mentioned them gonna keep an eye out! I figured on XI as much as I like their stuff, but they whip them out so fast I didn't see how it was done without AI.
Yeah, I've seen some pretty schlocky shit, too. And much/most of it not AI generated. I'm reasonably sure we can all recall some offenders who have conventionally produced garbage over the years. Where's the outrage? People tend toward cheap and lazy. Some see that using AI to produce 4, 10, or 1,000 potential products as being an advantage over taking weeks to produce one. Maybe it'll bite them in the ass. Is it unethical/illegal/immoral? No. Not until they force people to buy. Or they defraud people. Which brings us to advertising.
Many of you seem to be able to detect/suspect which products are AI generated without the advertising making it clear. How is that? How can that be? It's because you have learned to discriminate. It's an objectively valuable skill.
Despite the ads, I have never once had a Kool-Aid Man burst through my wall when I was thirsty. Ever. It is necessary for consumers to have at least a modicum of common sense. That is what caveat emptor means. And if they get gyped, then common sense typically grows. And yes, vendors and retailers have a responsibility to advertise clearly and honestly. The more, the better.
My umberage is reserved for the tacit notion that items should be restricted from sale because someone feels icky that they weren't produced in a way they deem acceptable, or sold for a price they deem acceptable. That's icky.
For me, it is not the fact that AI has been used, it is more the way it is marketed & presented.
It seems a lot of folk try to replicate the promos for a given product.
When those promos have been produced through AI that is a potential problem.
If what is in the box is not capable of resembling in your DS render the promo given, that is what I find misleading & misrepresentative.:0/
@eelgoo, That point has been brought up several times over at Daz. The thread lasts a few hours before being deleted by Hasel-whats-is'asshole-Tine. The issue that's gonna bite their butts at some point is the one regarding copyright. The US copyright office stated that AI produced anything can't be copyrighted as it's produced from the work of others. This was upheld by their supreme court. The only question is how much of it is derivative. Creators will have to state what, and how much, was used. I can't see Daz admitting to the use of AI even though there's tools that can analyze a product (image, text, song, 3d mesh) and determine how much is a product of AI.
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