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@eelgoo Yeah, makes you miss the internet of over a decade ago, the whole art community was a better place back then.
@reinecarola Compared to something like 3DCoat or Zbrush, Mudbox features and tool set is lacking. But it works perfectly for me as I only need those basic sculpting tools. I tend to stick with software I learned first (But I also don't shy from others). I learned how to make 3D models in GMax so I still use 3DS max over other programs. Same thing with Mudbox. It was my first sculpting tool, so I still use it to this day.
Would I recommend Mudbox over Zbrush? Depends… If the person is new to sculpting and wants to jump in quickly, then I would suggest it. If you need more functionally from Mudbox, then I would suggest moving to Zbrush or 3DCoat.
If you're learning Zbrush, my advice would be to stick with it. But if you’re wondering what Mudbox is like, you can install it and try it out without worrying about your losing your mind or forgetting how to use Zbrush. Mudbox is that easy to figure out. That’s the sole advantage to Mudbox.
@kelsie332 Thanks for the advice. So far, I've only made props in ZBrush (which turned out better than I'd anticipated) but I haven't tried a character yet. I might d/l a trial version of Mudbox just to test it out.
I agree that G9 is far better when it comes to male counterparts while being subpar in the feminine section out-the-box, like really rough around the edges. But even with that said, if you have a few morph packs and tinker with it here and there it starts to take shape. However the chest area was pretty bad, I used B-Tacular and a few other chest products to get the desired look when it comes to the curviness on most full body morphs (however the new G9 products coming out really did diversify a ton and now I don't really have to any more)
The genitalia is far better and especially the details on the body "Ultimate Natural Bend Morphs" gives the figure truly are great (tried the other G8 counterparts but none of them came close to it in terms of how great they look), the headache with the expressions between G8 and 8.1 along with the mess that were geo-shells is also gone (artists also don't have to always make basically two characters split between the 2 figures), all solvable issues but irritating nonetheless.
Another nice thing is that on 99% of the figures coming out the stupid plastered on eyebrows along with the scalp are gone. I'd say G9 for me has really been saved by all the great artists who've matured along the way and now release products which are really polished. Clothing department is still lacking though, same garbage ultra skimpy outfits make up far too much of what is being pumped out just like in G8.
I will wait until the end of year to try out G9. The only thing which may attract me is the higher polycount, so I don't, theoretically, have to think too much compared to G8 when I tinker and make my own custom morphs with Blender.
I like g9 for brining some modernity to Daz figures, esp in terms of topology. For game dev work, g9 is the best solution as it's much closer to industry standard than all the mess before it. The major issue g9 has is lack of proper mesh density around the chest to add nipples on lower subdivision levels. An odd and frankly dumb choice considering Daz has a giant adult content fanbase.
G8 is little more than an a-posed g3 and very lazy at that. The topology is dated and the rigging can be a pain for asset creators. I've read numerous times that for PAs g9 makes life a lot easier so i understand why a bunch of them shifted their focus on the Daz store.
For rendering, none of this all rly matters tho. In the end it boils down to the quality of the Character morphs you intend to use and imo every figure has some morphs that are timeless.
M4 got the best male sculpts by far in terms of variety and frankly i miss the v4/m4 level of texture differences which set the characters further apart. G8 and G9 alike often use the exact same texture sets, contributing greatly to same face syndrome and frankly being kind of a rip off.
I've always wondered about rigging and mesh topology. I assumed that rigging would be stupid simple, it's a human form so you make digital bones IDENTICAL to the real bones so that figures would work exactly like real people. The topology of the mesh was there to follow the bones and move/squish/squeeze/change exactly like real skin and muscle to. I read something somewhere that this new fangled 'dual-quaternion' method would do (or come close to) just that because it preserves internal volume. When folks talk about industry standard, isn't that the goal, what we're all aiming for? Shouldn't the bones and mesh from everybody be getting closer and closer to this ideal and therefore the same?
I'm no designer so I don't see how a skeleton from V3 could be much different than G9 or any other 3d human. You take the bone frame of a human and build around it.
I'd be interested in knowing what G9F you've come across that changed your mind about her. I rarely do bendy renders
@Thedamnthing honestly I find the topology of G9 no better than G8 anyway. it doesn't suck but it isn't better.
G8 could benefit from increased polycount (by doubling it), with a little fixes around (such as the diagonal quad used to add new columns of quad near the thigh area), but the topology itself is good especially the joints and chest.
G9 however has HUGE issues with the chest area. Not to forget the navel area is just a simple quad. The rest of the body is very identical to G8 in terms of topology itself, but being denser, hence not requiring merging/joining as much.
In turn, this makes stuffs such as headlights (discounted B-tacular, it replaces only the nips area) difficult because now it's just a patch of squares and may result in bad, sharp cornering edges. But with a full graft swap with B-tacular it won't be much of a problem as there are loops that run around the chest, just not the nips.
Honestly its only upside against G8 is the mesh density. Not topology.
Having tried the unimesh route twice now IMO unsucessfully, I hope they will return to male & female bases going forward, be it G9.1M & G9.1F or probably more likely G10M & G10F.
I also think variable resolution is more of a tripping stone than an asset.
It used to be, if you were concerned about it, use the HD morphs in close up, but not at distance.
Simples!
🙂I really don't want to bother with the female/male dynamic (and split libraries between the two) again honestly and especially not with another mess that will be Figure X.1/2/3 etc and the little annoyances that it will bring with expressions/double figures/textures/clothing/morphs/hair and the likes!
It's already annoying enough that I need to unpack and sort all the products that the vendors love to put into folders with their own names in, I am more than happy not having to do that twice for every product in most cases 😀
@slender331man G9 topology is a lot cleaner than G8 and as previously mentioned more akin to what professionals would use. I believe it was made to compete with the rise of other character creator software and MetaHuman. The problem is that, yeah the lack of density around the chest and also navel is very very bad and kinda rushed on Daz' part. Here are two examples of more professional work:
CC3 https://manual.reallusion.com/Character-Creator-4/Content/ENU/4.0/05_Character/Topology-Mesh-Enhancements.htm
Pro base mesh by Vyusur
https://www.renderhub.com/vyusur/nataly-base-mesh-26000/nataly-base-mesh-26000-08.jpgComparison between G8 and 9 topology where you can see G9 is closer to pro work:
https://simp6.host.church/images3/topologye5e633f1c555cbdd.jpg
They also fixed a very bad anatomical issue with the way too raised armpits on pretty much all older Daz models. Older versions are full of density changes for no reason which results in all these uneven quads. Clean topology is better for a good rig which you can see in G9 suffering less from the crotch triangle issue with clothes than previous iterations did.Another plus are the new UV maps which distribute texel density and direction a lot better than before.
https://simp6.host.church/images3/uvs7c3093b840f20f40.jpg
Arms and legs still have small size (density) differences to torso but overall it's a lot closer and distributes details more evenly. The combined head and scalp is something old Poser figures already did and I never understood why it took Daz this long.None of this (Uvs maybe) is majorly important in Daz itself when you have well made figure morphs and clothing with Dforce, though. I enjoy all figures for use in renders for their unique character morphs and content.
For use outside of Daz, inside games or movies though the updated base mesh is a big improvement and ultimately easier for vendors to create for. A unimesh approach is also not a downside and not the reason some characters may look more feminine or masculine. Any basemesh is only as good as the people who will shape it.No figure is as bad as LF2 over at Poser though https://live.cdn.renderosity.com/marketplace/products/161485/lightbox-images/651446/image_77e215b577e1d9c4e41a1321a0f425dd.png
This mess of topology makes me cry.@thedamnthing, Shouldn't mesh more-or-less follow the underlying musculature? The back mesh on La Bimbo Two looks bizarre, as if didn't know how to complete the mesh.
@ethiopia Yeah I have no idea what they were smoking for LF2 considering LF1 looked so clean: https://posersoftware.s3.amazonaws.com/ss_product_images/f406JYzX8BI9XtDTBYU7MbDCvGnE4XLoG3R2lXma.png
I doubt you can achieve anything good with La Femme 2 at all in terms of rigging and correction morphs cause this is a nonsensical mess. Must be difficult for clothing creators too, let alone detailed character morphs. The overall polys just look wobbly and the thighs have much less density than the calves. Vicky 4 is a mess in terms of topology, but she's decades old. Yet, still much better than this lol
No idea what brings them to promote their figure with this too
https://live.cdn.renderosity.com/marketplace/products/161485/lightbox-images/651326/image_64ceaa2b3e90d22e140788e94311cba0.png@thedamnthing, Poser users have always had lower expectations. There where a few that raised the bar for a bit, Erogenesis made his own character (Lali) based on Vicky Four but reworked EVERYTHING including the bones, rigging and mesh. It was billed as a Poser-saver but he seemed to drift away from the whole scene after he emigrated from South Africa to the UK.
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