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Based on what little I've done with AI that statement is only partially true
Using AI alone probably (for now)
Enhancing Daz renders with AI provides superior results if you fix the fingers problem.
As eelgoo said, he's been using Daz for ages. I've been around before Vicky Buster was a thing. I've seen little improvement over G3 and seen massive improvement in AI monthly. I expect in 2 years Daz will still be Daz. AI will have ironed out several of its issues.
I'm trying not to be an AI cheerleader because I feel it's void of artistic humanity but given enough control over the outcome it's no different. If I can pick a pose. A character. A background.
Given that level of control combined with replication, there's no way Daz could compete. Simply telling my model to 'Walk to the fence and jump over it" vs an ass load of hands on animation is amazing. Telling AI there is a 5mph wind blowing her hair and dress east is easier than setting up a fan in world.
I could probably run through 20 hairstyle without rerendering the entire image. I honestly see no limit to what it will eventually be capable of.FYI: I was high when I typed this and the thread had four posting from @ADAM and @supreme-leech, I held off posting it because I know how stupid things people think of while high. 12 hours later I re-read it just said who gives a shit... Post it and see what it can add to the conversation.
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@ADAM Okay, I might be following along more, but I'm not sure...If I'm correct, you're talking about how AI has managed to reach to a point that it can create items in such a real or stylistic fashion at such an ease and rapid paste than humans could ever achieve. then I understand what your alluring too and read on... If not, then stop reading here and clarify.
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My argument against that would be, I feel this was always an evidential outcome that we cannot not stop as soon as ChatGPT was first announced to the public. (Or whatever AI model/system first derived and announced to the public.) There is no such thing as stopping something once the cat's out of the bag for humanity.
This may seem out of the blue, but personally; I feel a lot of users on this site have a "anti-fan" attitude towards DAZ. (A general feeling I have when browsing the forum due to the topics made when the central subject of the topics are about DAZ and the wrongs they've done.) Which made me assume your thread was also along those lines since it seemed to focus to topic on DAZ specifically. As if their [possible?] eventual death (as a company) will become true.
I cant tell the future, and stop trying to long ago because of how wrong I always am. But, I would say; I think there's not a single thing DAZ could do right now, a year back, 5 years back or a decade ago to change their outcome in regards to their software. No amounts of changes could of predicted AI and it's strengths. Mainly because of the simplicity of AI usage along with it always using your work to create other versions of it.
Remember, DAZ Studio was (like most programs) made for a specific goal in mind 20 years go. (A mind blowing thing to realize in my eyes. Mainly due to age.) A time where AI like today was only considered by science-fiction nerds that like to discuss esoteric topics others would not care to think of back then. What where the popular topics back in 2005? And do you really think almost every single artist and maybe programmer talk about how AI would kill the artistic industry?
I haven't seen many software companies the size of DAZ Productions try to change their sole product core priorities to continually satisfy the worlds new demands. Can they do it? Maybe, but considering their potential size, (about 130 employees?) along with their financial resources and constraints, It's rare for companies their size to have major new features to keep up with the market.
Hell, I honestly think even companies like Autodesk, SideFX or whatever other 3D modeling software company you know might be in trouble right now due to AI. (Although DAZ may be in big trouble right now due to their software specific strengths.)
AI isn't just a death knock on DAZ's door, that knock echos to all artistic software companies in the world.
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This section below was modified 12 hours later.
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Which leads me to seeing @supreme-leech comment / question:
That depends, how do you value artwork more? Would you care if the artwork was don by a human or if it was made by a machine&/or both?
This [maybe?] make me agree with @stachelzelle
Sadly, I think the future may not care that much at all. Should every living human stop manually making art because of AI? No... Me personally, I'll continue to do manual 3D artwork and try to achieve it by hand without the use of AI because the final output is everything I personally wanted to see. Every small detail is an item I needed to explicitly spend the time to make sure it looks as such. This is something I feel AI could never achieve. "The personal touch".
Although we'll have to acknowledge most people will not care about that "personal touch" manual artists do to achieve the final output. But everyone not caring is something I personally don't care about.
Those doing art for an income will have to adjust to the future going forward sadly. This also include the artistic software companies like DAZ. Which could also in turn impact those of choose to make art manually. Especially with the tools made in the future.
My initial arguments against AI were duplicate existing art , lack of customization and void of human interaction.
Paying an artist to draw your character then telling someone you did it is basically what AI is.
If however I select a G8 character, use a pose, use an environment, use a dress, ect... I'm basically using another adt to make my art. Now I almost never use something exactly as it's sold. I make personal touches. That part is the part I thi k AI lacked. However seeing the consistency of the above links I may have been somewhat wrong. They appear to be fairly consistent and tailored toward a specific theme. The closer one can get to selecting and duplicating what you want from AI the more "you" are in control and that adds some humanity to the outcome. I'm still not pro AI but I seriously don't believe I have a choice. There's is no way I see anyone easily replicating what AI is capable of and without it you'll be using a wall phone while everyone else is on cellphones.
@kelsie332, I think you missed the point of my post. I'm not so much interested in the final result, as I'm more interested in the enjoyment of CREATING that final result. I've spent weeks of evenings working on a plastic model only to put it on a shelf and rarely look at it. It's all that time fiddling with details that I had such fun doing. When I look at it, THAT'S what I remember.
People doing AI pictures are missing out on that.@supreme-leech, yeah I may of missed your point from the start (remember I wrote that while high about 12 hours ago. So I fell like I went off on a random tangent that may not apply to this topic. But posted it to see where it drives the conversation.)
But I basically agree with you. I just didn't state that agreement directly with you coherently enough.
This is the paragraph where I somewhat express the a similar view to you. The core focus was the "Personal touch" Or something someone will do because it something THEY want to see regardless what it takes but not wanting AI adding element that has no place nor a personal touch.
Sadly, I think the future may not care that much at all. Should every living human stop manually making art because of AI? No... Me personally, I'll continue to do manual 3D artwork and try to achieve it by hand without the use of AI because the final output is everything I personally wanted to see. Every small detail is an item I needed to explicitly spend the time to make sure it looks as such. This is something I feel AI could never achieve. "The personal touch".
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My initial arguments against AI were duplicate existing art , lack of customization and void of human interaction.
I agree with you. Maybe this sentence of mine would've applied to you more than anyone else.
That depends, how do you value artwork more? Would you care if the artwork was done by a human or if it was made by a machine&/or both?
If it seems like it doesn't I'll re-word it to something I personally feel is true when it comes to art.
I value art created by another human with the drive to express a specific mood or moment more than something an AI could ever create due to the lack of workmanship put into the finial product.
I have a very poor memory. Some things however have stuck with me for 40 years.
I considered myself a reasonable artist when I was young. At one point I viewed a student's sketch book. It was amazing. Way better than I could do. He had never taken art lessons it came to him naturally.
Browsing online now I see artists that can sculpt, paint, draw, ect... better than I could ever hope to achieve. I might have an eye for art but little talent. Daz was a reasonable way to shorten that gap. However I am still unable to get what I really want out of the program. It's extremely difficult to render an image that looks real. I've done it few times but probably more accident than skill.
I hate mowing the lawn. It's a chore because you only temporarily achieve your goal. The grass will grow back and it's a PITA that continues forever unless I pay someone else to do it.
2 dissimilar perspectives but for me they merge. Why continue to use something I know I will never achieve my goal. Fun? While I do enjoy setting up a scene, I know it's not ever going to look like I want it to. I want photorealism. Combining Daz with AI has gotten me the closest to where I want to be.
I set my goal to amazing and unfortunately either my skill set, Daz or both are not capable of reaching that goal. AI apparently is and that's the problem. I find AI distasteful as earwax but it's the only option that will actually do what I want.
Using DAZ together with AI is the best of both worlds. Sometimes getting exactly what you want is infinitely harder to accomplish if you only use one or the other. For instance, if you wanted a certain character to have a very specific pose in the final result, you could pose a scene in daz (with all the correct height and dimensions of other objects in the scene also) and use it as the basis in AI. Consider each of the softwares combined as a "swiss army knife" of utilities to be stacked and utilized as needed, going back and forth to refine if necessary. You can use the result of the initial DAZ scene in AI in so many different ways (inpaining, or in controlnet openpose or reference, ip-adapter, and on an on)
I totally agree with @gts6
After going AI in 2022, I find myself now going back to Daz to create the scene I want to then use AI to transform it into a new style with a relatively good character/clothing/environmental consistency.
And yes, it even supports multiple characters in intricate poses, something completely impossible until now.
@supreme-leech Well, in a way, yes. There is always the possibility to create amazing images, but with little control, or have a lot of control, but it requires a lot of work.
Unfortunately, for now, the latter system is not yet perfect, and smaller details or characters at a certain distance lose some of their characteristics.
Rank:
@ADAM, I think you're right, but you're definitely comparing what isn't comparable: I'm in love with the modern car, but the pleasure of a vintage model is also undeniable (^^)
@castiglionfrancis, I enjoy the reliability of modern cars. I've always had Civics that have given me hundreds of thousands of kilometers of cheap and trouble free transportation. I also still have the first car I ever bought 49 years ago. It provides a sensation that no modern car can....
....but argh! SU carbs can be a pain.But in this situation, we are not restricted to have and use just one or the other. We are free to use both, whichever we prefer and whichever time we choose.
This doesn't have to be an "either/or" situation, and probably shouldn't be.
@Supreme-Leach: I bought my first car about 13 years before you did, wish I still had it. It'd be worth a lot more that the $250.00 I paid for it back when I was a kid.
As far as AI and DAZ go, I use 'em both, but like most here, I started by actually learning to draw, using light and shadow, then color. Later, I used Photoshop, then Poser, then DAZ and now AI. I have to say that it's an entirely different 'feel' putting pen/pencil/brush to paper/canvas. I did some sketches the other day and rediscovered that more 'intimate' connection. I was surprised I could still do it, hasn't left me yet.
Now, back to Comfy and Kontext...not an artist anymore, just a technician.
"I did some sketches the other day and rediscovered that more 'intimate' connection. I was surprised I could still do it, hasn't left me yet."
Put some of your sketched in the Art Showcase. I'd love to see them. I have zero drawing ability myself. I haven't used DS so long I reckon I'd have to re-learn it all over again, or maybe it's like riding a bike.
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