Post your render

[ADAM]

Thst is an interesting response. Not using render software to render but just view a scene. Not wanting to provide feedback on any posted examples. 2 of which I feel are excellent examples of my gallery.
While you ask nicely and seem interested and respectful, I get the feeling I'm being eloquently trolled.
Being in favor of others joining while delaying your participation isn't something that builds my confidence in a relatable discussion.

[Chpugzi]

@d0gg0d
Adam, I'm sorry you perceive my interest as trolling. Let me break it down simply.

You were the one who started with a high bar and talked about your own interesting results. Logically, if you want to show what the tool is capable of in someone's hands, you should show the most impressive work you have, right? You hinted that it exists somewhere.

You post test renders and immediately devalue them yourself -"unfinished," "could be better." And then you expect me to seriously analyze them? That's strange. My attention is drawn to what you yourself refer to as your strong work, which you mentioned. It's as if a chef served a sample and said, "I didn't add enough salt here," and then waited for a Michelin review.

About me: yes, I rarely do final renders. I'm more interested in the process itself-tweaking the scene, lights, materials in the preview viewport, endlessly combining, and, of course, connecting it with what we all enjoy here-tying it into our favorite adult content. For me, that is the core interaction with Daz. Therefore, my request isn't trolling but a natural desire to see that very "top" work of yours, to understand what level of skill and capabilities you were even referring to in your first post.

In short: you created certain expectations with your statements. I'm just being consistent and waiting for the picture to become complete. Without that, any discussion will be pointless.

[Poe]

I was hesitant to respond to this but I do find it interesting. Couple of things come to mind and the one that seems most obvious is that there is an art style to 3D rendering, a creative process that is appealing and finally, if realism is what the ultimate goal is then what is better than using a camera?

I've seen stunning art done in DAZ on the galleries at renderhub. Granted, they use multiple applications to manipulate the image but man is it beautiful. Daz combined with PS and other software can achieve some really good results with multiple art styles that are easily identifiable as 3D art.

I have little experience with AI art so bare that in mind but what I found was that it requires a different approach. I'm not knocking it but it's something I find less interesting. Seems to me that there is a simpler and less involved work flow to AI art then 3D. With the little experience I have, it left me feeling like I was telling an artist what to create instead of creating it myself and so it doesn't feel like "mine".

If realism is the ultimate goal then why not get involved in photography art class and go take photos? AI isn't going to compete with that level of realism and lets be absolute here, photos are not real either they're 2D images of a 3D world. Then I have to ask, is photography better then painting?

Ultimately, I'm not against the idea of creating a thing in Daz and then taking that into AI to adjust or create a video from an image though, that could be quite appealing. I considered creating a little motion or dance video for Marge but struggled to get everything installed correctly; just an absolute pain in the ass but maybe something I'll tinker with down the road. I think the process for me feels less involved with AI and not as fulfilling, it just feels that much less like "my work" and to be fair, there is an element of that in 3D rendering but not as pronounced. I'm not a "black and white" kind of person as I do see the appeal to both.

So this wouldn't beat your AI examples but it's the best that I've personally made so far. Funny thing about this one, it was my first render. The scene was an absolute disaster of a mess with unnecessary lights scattered about, missing walls and gutted objects. I think renderhub's gallery has some really stunning art work that should be taken into account as to what is possible with DAZ. Ultimately though, is one better then the other? I think that depends upon what you're after.

[ADAM]

Ive done photography. Still like it. Problem with photography is it only creates what already exists unless you're into photomanipulation.

The thread was posted because a few people seem to believe Daz will survive AI unscathed. That and my curiosity of what people are capable with Daz over AI. I know my limits on Daz but I dont know yours. Ive seen impressive work on other forums. I personally dont count anything thats been heavily altered as Daz.

Using Daz as a jumping board then spending 4 hours painting over it in PS isnt showing what daz can do. Its just showing your artistic merit. The same thing can be done in AI and AI can duplicate any style.

Ive been here a considerably long time and have only been impressed by a few people's art. Part of that is possibly because relatively few people post art.
It also may be Daz just isn't as easy for someone to make an image in 10 seconds.

I am genuinely impressed with the quality of AIs quick development and I personally hate AI. Its both destroyed and opened the art community. I dont believe programs like Daz can survive. I thought Poser would be gone yet its still here. So I've been wrong before but I don't see how Daz can survive the flood of other 3d programs and AI.

So to get back to the post...
I've seen all my art. Ive not seen all of the art people who visit here have made. So if you're into realism feel free to post and comment. Im on my phone atm so I'll check out your share once I get to a computer. Thanks

[ADAM]

Ive touches on the subject of painting vs photos before. In general, while photography does take skill its a lower art form than painting.

I can hand a person who's never touched a camera and they may take a great picture by accident or may get the feel for it in a few minutes and surprise you. Unless a person is some sort of prodigy, they aren't painting a masterpiece if they've never picked up a brush. Skills can be taught. You're born with talent.

If I were a great painter, I wouldn't need Daz. If I were a great sculpture I wouldn't need others 3d models. If I were a master photographer, I would be posing daz girls. The reason I use daz is an unfortunate truth. I suck at the things I love to do. Daz is my out.
I'm not letting AI think for me. Once AI gives me absolute control I may move to it but ATM ive lost interest in art.
AI did that. AI took what little skill I worked towards and made it irrelevant. The camera phone hit photography so everyone's a photographer. Now, dont get me wrong. I still occasionally enjoy these things but they've lost some luster. Seems a bit irrelevant to spend a few hours tweaking a daz scene when anyone with a minor grasp of language can create a better product in seconds.

So after that long drawn out statement, yes a painter is better than a photographer.

[Eve Adams]

It's near impossible to get a realistic character render in Daz, but with good lighting and a good model, you can get some decent results. For me, the optimum model for realism is Ophelia 7. She was the high water mark as far as I'm concerned.

[Poe]

Interesting discussion here. Respectfully I disagree with you because I feel like painters and photographers are apples and oranges. I took a photography class long ago and it didn't take but I admired and respected the people who enjoy it and learned enough to appreciate photography. Since I was young I loved drawing sketches and while I never became great I am decent enough to sketch something and people can tell what it is. I got into digital painting for some time and enjoyed it because I could paint things without a mess. It was an opportunity to add color to my sketches, at least that's the way I looked at it. I feel like there's different avenues for art and I'm more inclined to say that each one is valid in it's own way.

I think you and I share at least a similar perspective on AI. I can see the positive but also can't unsee the negative here. I feel like AI is going to flood our world with regurgitated products and art as something akin to commercialized, quantified and manufactured pop music devoid of human creativity to a degree that overwhelms. It's likely to isolate people more than to bring people together and I see that as a problem in a world already in a state of instability, uncertainty and chaos. I'm pretty sure that people that have already navigated into different hobbies beyond art are going to continue to do those things but younger generations are less likely as AI evolves. I don't think AI is there yet but it's pretty clear it's making progress and not so clear where that progress might end if there is one.

@littleevie
Interesting pics, that character was one that I unfortunately overlooked. Odd wrinkles in the neck area but the hands and face look pretty good in that lighting.

[Eve Adams]

@poepogue Those odd wrinkles are the very reason Ophelia 7 became my go-to model. She wasn't a 21-year-old supermodel; she was an older woman with a body that had been lived in. The ravages of time were there, for all to see, in the wrinkles and blemishes on her skin. I know there are other "older" women models out there, and some of them are pretty good, but for me, Ophelia was the first time someone had properly captured the ageing process, and you never forget your first time, do you?

[Poe]

@littleevie
It just struck me as unnatural in the model but I think aging adds character and character is attractive; we can likely agree on that. Unfortunately I don't have the skill required to really do that kind of thing in my projects ATM but I'm working on it. I love laugh lines and crows feet around the eyes! ; )

[ADAM]

@poepogue
The clutter and environment add to the realism of the render. The eye shadow seems a bit dark and doesn't blend in with the skin but I guess she could put it on thick. I like the pose and expression.

@littleevie
Ill have to check her out. I often skip experimenting with old models unless I'm actually looking for an appearance look which isn't often

___________

Everyone has different views.I see photography as being similar to push button make art. It rarely creates anything other than document what is/was. I couldn't photograph a demon unless a makeup artist applied fx to a person or a digital artist altered the image. A sculptor could use their imagination and form one out of clay.

achieving reality in renders... I think that's part of my problem. I'm trying to achieve something that isn't possible or extremely difficult and beyond my skill.

[sunan1977]

So I think I misunderstood the original post and though it was any realistic looking DAZ render not just people . I don't often render people in Daz studio unless they are background fillers as I am never too happy with the results of say portraits . so if I want portraits I use my camera instead . how ever this is one of my better DAZ portrait renders straight out of DAZ studio only edited for size to upload to here and a portrait using my camera not hard to tell which is which

[ADAM]

I have a site I posted some photos on. If I can remember the password and delete the site I may post a couple.

I like spontaneous photos so I occasionally would be a second photographer at events. While the primary was setting up poses and hunting people down, I would take pictures of people getting tipsy or kissing grandma, ect... Maybe I'm narcissistic but I often thought my pictures were better. I have posed people before and hated it. The reason??? It looks fake/scripted. Probably because it is.

I literally have thousands of pictures of Vietnam and Cambodia. Not all are great but some surprised me. Might go again this year or early next year if the world holds together.

[Poe]

@d0gg0d
The clutter I was talking about in that render isn't visible. I really didn't know what I was doing at the time and was deleting walls in the environment to get the lighting right. I like the render but there's a lot that could be done to improve that one, not sure if I'm interested in tinkering with it though. The makeup, yeah that wasn't very well done and more of an afterthought; I'm still struggling to get that right. The render was meant to display the character and features of the asset so there is a bit of nonsense in it. I had originally applied a vignette and heavy DOF to the render and it looked great as art but doing that diverted focus on the model and asset that I was trying to display.

@littleevie
Not sure if you've seen Kooki99's characters but they're pretty amazing for the more natural/weathered look; not sure that I've seen better than those.

https://www.deviantart.com/kooki99
https://www.daz3d.com/kooki99
https://www.renderosity.com/users/kooki99/gallery

[gaver]

I think it is hard to make a realistic pic in DAZ. Guess like with photography, the main thing is lighting.
Tried some portraits recently, not satisfied but it's getting closer to my goal
I must agree on your vision on AI, although you have to write a good promt, it is not I who creates the image. Played with it, but it wasn't for me.
Then there is the fun factor.
I enjoy the creative process, the tweaking and stuff.
Still would be nice to have AI renderengin in Daz Studio

[Eve Adams]

@poepogue
kooki99's models certainly look very good, and I've used Erik HD for G8M on more than one occasion, but that's the only one I've got . It's difficult to explain what I see in a model that makes me want it, Ophelia 7 was a "must have" asset the second I saw her, as was Ivan 7. I do like Erik HD, but whatever that "WOW!" factor, that makes me want an asset, is, I'm afraid most of kooki99's models just don't have it.

[Author]

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