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On the introduction of G9, vendors could be cut some slack for their products not to be premium quality, as it was a new base figure & things needed to be attuned accordingly.
IMO G9 stuff is probably now as good as it is going to get.
From a significant proportion of vendors, we have not seen a return to the quality of the assets for G8, let alone any improvement.
Some even seem to have got a bit lazy or careless.
Arryn stuff, for example. The footwear always used to be carefully crafted with useful dynamic morphs. This seems to have gone from G9.
This is a pity as I always appreciated their work.
I am sure they are far from alone in this trend though.:0/
"I am sure they are far from alone in this trend..."
Certainly not but people will still keep buying. Look at the RTX5XXX situation... people are gladly paying $1000+ for a $750 MSRP 5070. Idiots gobble up whatever they're fed.
If your only choice is oatmeal it's better than rocks. Fortunately there are other options, for now.
For me AI is oatmeal and DS is rocks. Neither are perfect and you're right that we do have choices.
Use whatever floats your boat & what works best for what you want to do.
Currently for me that is DS & G8.1.
Normally I tend to be an early adopter, but I am really thankful I didn't jump in with G9.
I wonder if / when we will see G10?
Hopefully they will go back to G10M & G10F, instead of the awful, awkward androgynous base.I am not holding my breath!
🙂
IMHO Genesis (1) suffered from the same androgyny issue resulting in an overall blandness when compared to Vicky. It wasn't until G2 came along that I moved from Poser to DS.
As for G10, it may not appear before DS5 which was promised "... near the very end of this year", 2021 that is. Haseltine no longer responds to questions about the DS5 release date and to be honest he wouldn't know anyway as the forum mods are not told what's happening until it happens.
[https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/506346/daz-studio-5-development-update]I suppose it is a related issue, so I'll put it here.
There seems to be a recent trend for releasing products that are neither fish nor fowl.
Mixing incomplete sets of inner & outer wear?
A few vendors seem to do it, I don't know why they started to do that.
It makes keeping a coherent library much more difficult!
Sets of lingerie & outer wear are much more straight forward.G9 isn't bad by itself it just extremely unfriendly for PAs. When it's split along sex like with G8F & G8M it's easier to make everything fit nicely.
Daz trying to create the perfect base for male and female in one means if a PA creates a woman than it's more different to the G9 base than any female character for G8f ever was.
G9 is really hard to work with because of that. Every little mistake that would not be noticeable on a G8f is now very noticeable because the difference of the morphs from the base is so extreme.It seems like a lot of PAs don't care to try and optimize for G9 and have realized that creating minimum quality product is as much work as it was to make a quality G8 one and trying to go further becomes exponentially harder.
So why don't they jump from Daz to a third party vendor site & crack on with G8 until Daz comes to its senses & launches G10M & G10F?
There are a lot of people that think like I do, even if they are not very vocal about it!
🙂
People can make a living being PAs when they sell on Daz3D directly, but they can't if they only sell through third-party sites. The difference in revenue made from Daz's shop to the next is gigantic.
Many of the PAs invest as much time in their products as they would at any full-time job. If you want the quality of the really good G8 assets, then they have to be able to make a living.
It would take at least 3 times as much time to get all the morphs as nice on G9 as on G8. We are on a pirate site, so I know your and my answer, but I doubt the paying customers would be willing to suddenly pay 3 times as much for what, from their perspective, is the same thing.
Just to put this in perspective, if you were to commission one of the good PAs to create one character and pay a fair 3D industry standard price, you would have to pay 3K to 10K. The only reason talented artists can justify making high-quality Daz products is if they can make that amount of money by selling at that $20 price to many different people.
Daz's G9 move was retarded because they did not think about their most important assets when making it, which are their PAs.
Just to fuel dear Eelgoo's wrathful motor: we are in the same league. I absolutely hate G9 and never use it (ugly and taxing even my powerful rig with absurd texture sizes), I am still in a two version old Daz and happy with it. G8 is fast with plenty of clothing, props and NSFW stuff (if needed), the limit is expressions (I agree) AND I can create huge scenes with 20 G8Fs (rendered fast with my 4090 RTX), so that my creation process is fluid and mastered (I do not pretend it is art by the way...). Yes my current experience with an old DAZ version (4.21 or so), an old generation of figures and a recent hardware rig is EXTREMELY pleasing (for my needs : illustration of visual novels and rpg scenarios). I suppose most people have no use for G9 and fluffy bloat (except newcomers and close portraitists) and DAZ is in its death throes (and I no longer care) because they are unable to improve their product (same rehearsed complain) even if they would like. PAs sure are victims but also very complacent and slowly killing what keeps them alive. My wish would be an improved posing process and functional pins, better control for the face rig and optimized morph processing... Even a pirate can dream !
It sounds like with G9 Daz really has shot itself in the foot then!
Simple economics, without customers you are going to go out of business.
Fortunately for Daz, a lot of folk like new shiny & will pay a premium for it.
That is regardless if it is perceived to be a step backwards.
Not me, I am not in that camp.
There is some diversity in their customer base in that people are looking for DS to do differing things, so what one might see as a plus, others will see a minus.On the other hand, I will quite happily continue to indulge in G8, despite having a massive archive of stuff already, if I get a decent deal on it.
Thanks for the input so far.
🙂
There are a few good G9 products but nothing blew my mind. Addy's stuff is always amazing but generic. There isn't anything that truly justifies the upgrade.
I already have all the characters for my VN built in G8. Even G8.1 wasn't impressive enough unless you liked a specific character built on it.
We don't need a more detailed figure or male/female merger. We need better animation, deformers and clipping tools. Now DS is trying this premium shit. I would gladly pay $20/month if DS wasn't a steaming pile of featureless crap. If they want to charge Adobe prices they need to provide Adobe quality. We still lack simple features like open recent, right click to duplicate, turn off render icon, save as opened name...
Engines like UE5 are getting more user friendly with bigger content libraries. SFM and Blender took huge portions of the market which Ds could have had. DS will not be relevant for much longer because they have doubled down on selling content and not on basic animation/cinematic tools.
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