- This topic has 15 replies, 7 voices, and was last updated 3 years, 1 month ago by
.
-
Posts
-
Hi all,
I will do my best to keep this as upbeat as possible and not venture off into rant territory.
I have noticed a lot of request posts lately marked as filled - with multiple users crossing out their request as filled. But just as may users skipped wondering why they did not get PM'ed.
This usually occurs when the filler marks themselves as anonymous, so the skipped users have no way to follow up. Why it an oversight, are they on the fillers blacklist for some reason.
Maybe they wait a week or 2 to see if it makes it to the blog. Sometimes yes, sometimes no. If no, back to making a request again, leading to multiple requests for the same item.
Now a lot of this could be fixed by @Queensknight 's proposed request system, automating the filling of the requests for both sides. Requestors get their asset, posters get their promised points.
I for one hope we can get back to the days where we trusted each other, posted items we had as a matter pf course rather than bounty only. Daz has a fair bit of blame in this, with how products have skyrocketed (yet Daz+ coupons have not increased in value in forever).
So here is my vow to the Zone community. Any request I fill I will also post as a scheduled post the same day. That way if anyone misses the bounty, wait a few days and they can see it will be posted.
I would also ask we amend the template to say - please do not share as I will post to the blog within a week (not this when I feel like it if ever stuff) with a clause that if is not filled within the week anyone who has received it can post to the blog.
Just some ideas to go with QK's suggested system. I hope this is seen as more of suggestions than a rant.
SDL.
I've noticed that also. Not sure what it is ... but I think some people are filling requests, but only giving the item to some people who they trust. I noticed that with the item that I filled a few weeks ago.
I don't support my own Request Management System (RMS) proposal anymore, frankly. It aimed to solve one specific problem (points exchange), but it introduced an even worse problem that no one here seems interested in solving.
Basically the leakers in the Requests forum have ruined it for everyone by offering points for new releases and then posting them on pay-sites within an average of 1.5 days. If my RMS were implemented as proposed, it would make it much easier for leakers by removing the filler's ability to selectively avoid known leakers. Anyone with the points to offer could get access to a new release that way, and it would be a leaker's paradise that no (sane) filler would want to use.
My RMS design was naive in that respect--it assumed that all requestors were trustworthy, or that at least there was an enforcement of rules, and consequences for those who break them. We have ways of identifying the leakers--we know who some of them are--but so far Hunter has shown no interest in banning them or punishing them in any way whatsoever, so right now the leakers are running rampant in the Requests forum.
It's not a coincidence that many of the fillers you're used to seeing have quietly backed away from the Requests forum. We're tired of seeing the new releases we paid for leaked to pay-sites, with no action at all being taken to deal with the leakers. Some fillers use blacklists to help them avoid handing new releases to known leakers; others use whitelists instead--lists of members that have earned their trust.
What you're seeing in the Requests forum when people cross out their offers without the fill ever being marked as "filled" is someone buying the item and sharing it only with people that they trust not to leak it. The days of "general fills" are over, as far as many of us are concerned--at least until some action gets taken to remove the leakers.
An amended version of my RMS could be made to work, I think, but it would need to be gated to filter out the leakers. Limit access to the RMS to members who have established trust in some manner--e.g. achieved a minimum Rank, been endorsed by enough other trusted members, etc. Having the points to make an offer is not good enough anymore. And of course there would need to be an actionable process for dealing with those who violate our terms; without enforcement, the rules are meaningless.
A completely separate aspect of the problem is that too few of us are being relied upon to buy those new releases everyone wants. With 23k+ members, 99% of the new releases are purchased by less than 10 people, and that's just not sustainable. When those 10 people stop filling requests and it becomes noticeable enough for people to panic, it says that the membership here has become dependent on too few people to feed them.
Or, to put it another way, no one is stopping other people from buying products and filling requests, here. Just because the "usual" fillers aren't doing it doesn't mean new fillers can't step in and earn some points. Why isn't that happening? You can't tell me that 23 thousand members are all so financially strapped that they can't afford to buy one item every now and then and share it. This is not a burden that should fall on 10 people to fulfill--more buyers could solve the problem.
Ah, but there's the rub. Once people start paying real money for things they become invested in a way that virtual points can't match. When you pay hard-earned money for something and share it with people who then turn around and turn a profit with it elsewhere, you start to feel exploited, and your enthusiasm for sharing plummets. You find yourself wanting to share only with trusted peers, and the Requests forum loses another "general" filler.
The bottom line: Get Hunter to actually DO something about the leakers when we identify them, if you want the requests system to function properly, and encourage more people to step up and become new release fillers themselves.
I understand @Queensknight. I have been here since either late 2016/early 2017. Over that time sadly I have had a few years of unemployment usually due to a back injury I suffered in my 20's.
I used to still be able to contribute by spending my Daz+ voucher to buy something new to the site. Even that has started to become redundant.
As for @Hunter it is up to him to take action if he so desires his site to remain relevant.
I was aware that the filled users were supplying amongst themselves, this comes as no surprise to me. And although I dislike the idea of how that works, I fully understand the thought process behnd it. Each person decides how and if they want to support this site.
I will continue to contribute what I can. I hope others do the same and we can get back to the generally more open and friendlier days we had in the past.
Again, this is not me pointing fingers at anyone. Just trying to get a handle on the new status quo.
SDL.
@Queensknight, This is all very sad. I too have experienced this problem on this site. Certainly not as much as you or other top fillers, But I keep sharing my links and so I would like to know who is leaking links. You could post a list of who's involved. So that everyone who fills in has a chance to keep their assets.
@shadowdemonlord, that's the problem, though--everyone here has a great excuse for not spending money. We're all pensioners on fixed income, single mothers, poor students, people living on disability income, etc. Everyone has a noble justification for relying on other people to do the spending.
The ironic twist in all this is that when the people spending the money decide to get selective about the people they share their purchases with, they get accused of being "selfish" by the inconvenienced leechers. We start getting hate mail, and even moderators begin accusing us of starting some sort of "mutiny".
When we try to explain ourselves in threads like this one, the threads get completely deleted by the mods who accuse us of "trying to destroy the Zone". Speaking up about problems is bad for morale, apparently, and while only Hunter can ban a leaker, any mod can delete a forum thread to sweep the problem under the rug.
@Maddy, we tried that a few weeks ago, when the "Hall of Shame" thread started here in this forum. It was going to be a place for us to post those warnings about known leakers and other bad actors. I think it lasted three days or so before a mod (or Hunter) quietly deleted the thread. This thread won't be up for very long either, I expect.
@queensknight Oh I fully understand. The reason I stated the issues I had was not to garner sympathy. It was more to say even when things are not going your way you should still try and contribute where you can.
When I have the extra cash I buy a bundle. When I don't I buy something on sale. We can all contribute. When a bundle has been passed over, buy individual items, post it and the bundle will get completed individually. Slow but works.
Sorry if it came off the other way around.
SDL.
@mods Can this thread be locked/closed please.
It was never my intention to throw the heavy hitters under the bus for being selective as is their right.
I was more raising the fact that bounties are being mark filled when only some people have not had it completed. Can the bounties be left as open until someone fills for all.
Thanks,
SDL.
@queensknight, 2 people sent me their blacklists. I shared links with people on that list, and then after a while my assets would appear here on the blog .... It was frustrating and not pleasant. I tried to calm myself down thinking that it was just a coincidence or something like that.... But now it's clear to me that there are no such coincidences. And yes I understand you, considering the amount of work you put in! Honestly, I had no idea the scale of the problem was so huge. It's a shame. It's all very sad.
Just curious @Maddy but how long after did you notice them on the blog.
I was under the impression that anything not posted a week after the bounty had been filled was open to be posted to the blog.
That is why whenever I fill a bounty, I then post a scheduled post with the asset. That prevents anyone else posting it and ensures it gets shared to the blog. Yes I have people renege on bounty points when I do that, they just wait for the scheduled post to allow them to buy for 50 points.
But sadly this does not solve the issue of the heavy hitters who post so many only for it to find it's way to the pay sites within days if not hours.
SDL.
@shadowdemonlord Are you sure about the thread close?
"I was under the impression that anything not posted a week after the bounty had been filled was open to be posted to the blog."
Somewhere among the outdated rules, there is a paragraph stating this yeah, but most of the time folks would use the old gentlemen's code, and if the filler asks to not reshare their stuff then we only help the others to find the original filler, but not posting the item on the blog.
Of course, if the Filler went offline a long time ago etc, that can complicate things.
@Maddy There was a Hall of Shame (or something like that) thread with possible blacklists but it disappeared after 4-5 days... (I didn't see the last 1,5 days so I'm not sure if there were any "problematic" things going on there, but still IMO that thread was a good idea seeing the current situation).I keep wondering if Hunter isn't either running one of the paysites or supporting it in return for a kickback.
This is why I stopped posting a while back and am starting to take down my older shares. Private sharing among trusted friends is becoming more popular.@warrant63 Yes please - it has wandered a bit far from my original intention (not to close bounties only partially filled).
I understand the gentleman's agreement but that also was early days where bounties were posted to the blog fairly quickly. Also if the poster asks to not share and remain anonymous where does that leave the new requestors.
Thanks for the discussion all - I did not mean to upset anyone (I can see the nick SDL added to blacklists everywhere).
SDL.
- The topic ‘Holes in bounties being filled.’ is closed to new replies.
